Triple head questions

[VJ-Jean-Luc]

Particles render super fast at 2400x600

thats' very interesting to me as it's one of the very new things I worked on.

as for the theading. the vjo engine is single threaded, the gui is a seperate thread and any fxc dialogs are a third thread. there may be others though that i'm not aware of.

as for os. xp all the way. vista and w7 are approx 10-20% slower in raw processing power to xp. w7 has slower 2d management that vista, but both are sidelining some of the (window) drawing onto the gpu. this doesn't affect vjo as it operates directly on the cpu.

[Meierhans]

I did not have the experience that w7 was slower. I disabled all the nonsense (like themes..) and now it runs like a charm. It also supports more than 3.5 Gb of RAM. My experiences with XP 64 were much worse...

[Meierhans]

For the TH2G I would try to run 3072*768 but set Normal quality. Would result in 1536*384 render resolution which is more likely to work fast enough and also matches the native resolution of most projectors. At least in your special case.. cause I´m pretty sure you wont need edge blending for the moment, do you?

[Meierhans]

What are your findings? Any use or just too slow due to the resolution?

[play.vj]

More on this subject coming up in the following weeks, I'm working on a production that will have a TH2go setup in a studio for a month before the actual show.
Ill keep you all posted

[Synth]

Hi all
Finally i got my PC to run XP (a lot of problems to do it ?! ) and installed VJO and the Matrox TH2go Digital
First impression in Vjo running on Windows 7 / Server 2008 r2 / Xp :
for now i cant see difference between them playing only the example presets that came with VJO .
i only have a small freezing moment when i maximize and minimize VJO .
other than that all running absolutely the same.
More on the way with exact frame rates / resolutions and specs of the machine .

[Synth]

I made some tests so we can compare (more or less ) with play.vj .

Specs of the PC
MB: Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD4P
CPU: Core i7 920 @ 2.66Ghz
RAM : 6 GB DDR3
HDD 0: 500 GB System drive
HDD 1: 4X500gb @ 1 TB Raid 10 Array
HDD 2: 4X500gb @ Raid 0 Array
GFX 1: nVidia GeForce 8400 GS
GFX 2: nVidia GeForce GTX285
OS : Win XP 32-bit / Win 7 64-bit / Server 2008 r2 /

Now the tests :
Windows XP

Preset : 3D Walk Tunnel

Resolution 1: 3 * 1280x1024 ( 3840x1024 )
Quality : Normal quality
FPS : 40 +/- 1.5 ------------------- 28FPS with edge blending turned 1/3rd up

Resolution 1: 3 * 1280x1024 ( 3840x1024 )
Quality : Best quality
FPS : 18 +/- 1.5 ------------------- 11FPS with edge blending turned 1/3rd up

Resolution 1: 3 * 1024x768 ( 3072x768 )
Quality : Normal quality
FPS : 47 +/- 0.75 -------------------- 36FPS with edge blending turned 1/3rd up

Resolution 1: 3 * 1024x768 ( 3072x768 )
Quality : Best quality
FPS : 25 +/- 0.75 ---------------------- 15FPS with edge blending turned 1/3rd up

Preset : Adore

Resolution 1: 3 * 1280x1024 ( 3840x1024 )
Quality : Normal quality
FPS : 29 +/- 1 ------------------- 23FPS with edge blending turned 1/3rd up

Resolution 1: 3 * 1280x1024 ( 3840x1024 )
Quality : Best quality
FPS : 7 +/- 0.5 ------------------- 5FPS with edge blending turned 1/3rd up

Resolution 1: 3 * 1024x768 ( 3072x768 )
Quality : Normal quality
FPS : 47.5 +/- 0.75 ------------------- 38FPS with edge blending turned 1/3rd up

Resolution 1: 3 * 1024x768 ( 3072x768 )
Quality : Best quality
FPS : 12.7 +/- 0.5 ------------------- 9.7FPS with edge blending turned 1/3rd up

I tested a lot of the factory presets and what i noticed is that the 3d stuff ( 3d loader, evaluator etc ) runs much faster than anything else .
I will be making more test today and tomorrow and will update the post . also if someone can recommend other presets or functions for testing we could collect more info about the subject .
One thing i noticed is that on some of the test i am posting VJO is opening 2 threads .
On 3D Walk Tunnel i had 1 CPU @ 100% and one more @ 50%.
On Adore on the highest resolutions there was 2 threads @ 50% each and when i lowered the resolution there was only 1 @100%
screen shots : http://www.box.net/shared/b3crv2olyq

May be a bug with my computer but on the 3D Walk Tunnel when exiting full screen is giving me error and i cannot load any other preset before restarting VJO.
Next level of testing will be to disable the CPU Multi Threading so that i have only 4 Physical cores instead of 8 Logical .

[Sapo]

nice infos!! could be nice if you could do some tests about the fps of simple avi mpjg playback at various resoultions

[Meierhans]

Interesting numbers.Thanks for the testing!
Did you measure with Gestalt screen on or off? What about edge blending?

[Synth]

Currently at work but i will test as you requested first time in the morning .
Also will update for Windows 7 and Windows server ..

Edit
-------------
I updated my previews post with edge blending results
The tests i made are with Gestalt screen on. However removing the Gestalt driver gave me 1-3 frame/second gain but mostly about 1 frame/second ... Not much ...
Edge blending is eating a lot of CPU however it is highly dependent on how much you blend . When i turned it all the way up a i had a point where it is eating as much as 25-30 FPS in comparison when it is of .
My tests for now shows that turned 1/3rd or 33% up is taking 7-8 FPS on most of the presets

Edit 2
--------------
Video File tests

Resolution 1: 3 * 1024x768 ( 3072x768 )
Quality : Normal quality

Video 1 : 1920x1080@25fps Indeo 5.1 100% every frame key-frame
Player: AVI Loader/AVI Loader+/AVI Looper
FPS : 80 +/- 7 -------------------- 48 +/- 4FPS with edge blending turned 1/3rd up
Player: Media Player
FPS : 84 +/- 0.10 -------------------- 84 +/- 0.10FPS with edge blending turned 1/3rd up (the picture is jumping like you have bad coaxial cable ?!?!? )

Video 2 : 1920x1080@25fps Pic Video MJPEG quality 18
Player: AVI Loader/AVI Loader+/AVI Looper
FPS : 80 +/- 3 -------------------- 47 +/- 3FPS with edge blending turned 1/3rd up
Player: Media Player
FPS : 84 +/- 0.10 -------------------- 84 +/- 0.10FPS with edge blending turned 1/3rd up (the picture is jumping like you have bad coaxial cable ?!?!? )


Resolution 1: 3 * 1024x768 ( 3072x768 )
Quality : Best quality

Video 1 : 1920x1080@25fps Indeo 5.1 100% every frame key-frame
Player: AVI Loader/AVI Loader+/AVI Looper
FPS : 30 +/- 1 -------------------- 17 +/- 1FPS with edge blending turned 1/3rd up
Player: Media Player
FPS : 44 +/- 1 -------------------- 21 +/- 0.7FPS with edge blending turned 1/3rd up (No problem with the picture ?!?!? )


Video 2 : 1920x1080@25fps Pic Video MJPEG quality 18
Player: AVI Loader/AVI Loader+/AVI Looper
FPS : 30 +/- 1 -------------------- 17 +/- 1FPS with edge blending turned 1/3rd up
Player: Media Player
FPS : 40 +/- 1 -------------------- 19 +/- 0.5FPS with edge blending turned 1/3rd up (No problem with the picture ?!?!?)

The big Video

Resolution 1: 3 * 3072x768 ( 3072x768 )
Quality : Normal quality

Video 1 : 3072x768@25fps Indeo 5.1 100% every frame key-frame
Player: AVI Loader/AVI Loader+/AVI Looper
FPS : 80 +/- 4 -------------------- 48 +/- 4FPS with edge blending turned 1/3rd up
Player: Media Player
FPS : 84 +/- 0.10 -------------------- 84 +/- 0.10FPS with edge blending turned 1/3rd up (the picture is jumping like you have bad coaxial cable ?!?!? )


Video 2 : 3072x768@25fps Pic Video MJPEG quality 18
Player: AVI Loader/AVI Loader+/AVI Looper
FPS : 80 +/- 3 -------------------- 47 +/- 3FPS with edge blending turned 1/3rd up
Player: Media Player
FPS : 84 +/- 0.10 -------------------- 84 +/- 0.10FPS with edge blending turned 1/3rd up (the picture is jumping like you have bad coaxial cable ?!?!? )

Quality : Best quality

Video 1 : 3072x768@25fps Indeo 5.1 100% every frame key-frame
Player: AVI Loader/AVI Loader+/AVI Looper
FPS : 45 +/- 2 -------------------- 21 +/- 1FPS with edge blending turned 1/3rd up
Player: Media Player
FPS : 69 +/- 1 -------------------- 26 +/- 1FPS with edge blending turned 1/3rd up (No problem with the picture ?!?!? )


Video 2 : 3072x768@25fps Pic Video MJPEG quality 18
Player: AVI Loader/AVI Loader+/AVI Looper
FPS : 46 +/- 1 -------------------- 21 +/- 1FPS with edge blending turned 1/3rd up
Player: Media Player
FPS : 70 +/- 1 -------------------- 26 +/- 1FPS with edge blending turned 1/3rd up (No problem with the picture ?!?!?)

When using Media Player i have 2 threads on the CPU veeery cool
So anyone any suggestions now ?

[Sapo]

WOW very cool! it performs very well with videos! i'm actually having problems with a pc with 5 screens setup to get videos play smoothly

[Synth]

WOW very cool! it performs very well with videos! i'm actually having problems with a pc with 5 screens setup to get videos play smoothly

If you look at the results "Media Player" is the best in performance at high resolutions , and i think there is more room for a few effects and tweaks on the tree . Also for play-out of prepared media for a show i see great potential in MPEG2 and h264. Core codec is making decompression the GPU with CUDA and my find ( by accident really ) is that it is working with VJO and the decompression is multithreaded .
Today i overclocked my PC to 4GHZ and the results from the tests i posted above are quite surprising every result i posted is increased by around 30% !!!
More info on the way .
--------
May i ask how do you connect 5 screens to a PC ? 3 GFX cards or 1 quad card + one more normal card ?

[play.vj]

The tests are done on:
shuttle sb35p2
quadcore Q950, 3ghz, 12mb L2 cache
8gb RAM
ATI 4870 1gb
WD velociraptor 300gb (system+avi files)
CODEC MJPG PicVideo V3, 1 minute long at 25 fps and 100% quality
XP64, VJO Karma 1.12

3072x768 two files (150 mb each) two avi loaders and a multilayer advanced fading at a constant rate
output at 3072x768
full resolution 24 fps, Triple head edge blend 100% 12fps
Half resolution 28 fps, Triple head edge blend 100% 21fps
quarter resloution 31 fps, Triple head edge blend 100% 27fps

Playback was choppy with all three render options

2400x600 two files (120 mb each) two avi loaders and a multilayer advanced fading at a constant rate
output at 2400x600
full resolution 61 fps, Triple head edge blend 100% 21fps
half resolution 84 fps, Triple head edge blend 100% 41fps
quarter resolution 84 fps, Triple head edge blend 100% 71 fps

Playback was choppy with all three render options, but much less notable.

1920x480 two files (85mb each) two avi loaders and a multilayer advanced fading at a constant rate
output at 1920x480
full resolution 84 fps Triple head edge blend 100% 32fps
half resolution 84 fps Triple head edge blend 100% 73fps
quarter resolution 84 fps Triple head edge blend 100% 84 fps

Playback was 100% smooth with full resolution.


One layer with the same file as above in an avi loader

3072x768 file size and output resolution
full 48 fps, edge blend 100% 15 fps
half 72 fps, edge blend 100 % 30 fps
quarter 80 fps, edge blend 100% 50fps
Choppy playback

2400x600 file size and output resolution
full 84 fps, edge blend 26 fps
half 84 fps, edge blend 65 fps
quarter 84 fps, edge blend 84 fps
Acceptable playback smoothness

1920x480 file size and output resolution
full 84 fps, edge blend 40 fps
half 84 fps, edge blend 84 fps
quarter 84 fps, edge blend 84 fps
100% smooth playback

Moving the files of the System disc onto a 1Tb. 7200 rpm disc only improved playback slightly. The results seem comparable with what Synth gets, but we are both best at round 80 fps. At a previous test I only had Th2go connected to the GFX card, but no actual output devices, so the results can be off, but VJO reported 150fps using 1600x600 .avi with MJPG. It seems that using half resolution output is a way to utilize edge blending as the CPU hit is proportionally smaller.

Ill have more info on this subject next week when I reinstall XP, I will also do some tests on a i7 system, just waiting for SX58H7 shuttle to arrive.

[Synth]

At a previous test I only had Th2go connected to the GFX card, but no actual output devices, so the results can be off

My first tests were without connected screens (only the Matrox unit) and the test results are accurate ( i did all the tests again just to be sure of that ) so they should be accurate for you too .
Each test is running for 30 mins.

play.vj
Please excuse me if i am taking over your thread, i really did not mean to .

[play.vj]

play.vj
Please excuse me if i am taking over your thread, i really did not mean to .

I appreciate your concern, but don't see it like that at all. Actually your posts are most welcome, the more the better. We will get more conclusive results.

Since you mention no output devices, the preview window when using edge blending was also flickering on my tests, just like you describe (like a bad composite cable), but the output image was fine.

You are right about the results, they are conclusive 80 fps at 1920x480 (full resolution rendering), is probably my Hard disc limit since the CPU is only partially active in both our cases. And you are running RAID you get 80 fps with 3072x768, makes sense.

What makes me wonder if no output device is a realistic test, are these results from a previous test. Ill try to reproduce these next week.

results for:
1600x600 file 10 sec 97mb, rendering at 1600x600 best quality

With pure video
avi, mjpg trough mediaplayer 266fps gpu activity 36%
mpeg2 trough mediaplayer 179fps gpu activity 31%
mov photo jpg trough QTloader 102fps gpu activity 0%
avi trough QTloader 82fps gpu activity 0%
avi trough avi loader 207fps gpu activity 26%
avi trough avi loader advanced 63fps gpu activity 0%
avi trough avi loader+ 206fps gpu activity 26%

[Synth]

Here is what i mean about the edge blending bug (there is a QT movie ) http://www.box.net/shared/dz727idj14 note that this only happens when i use Media Player for the test , on the avi player there is no problem but the performance is about 40% lower
BTW, play.vj i don`t think your hard drive is the bottleneck . Normal hard drive is capable of sustained read of about 65 MB/s this is enough for both our tests. I think there is something else going on .

[play.vj]

The Media Player is a new addition to VJO, its a shame its not 100% reliable. I agree about the HD read speeds, should be more than enough, but its the most significant difference between our systems. Ill try the next test with 3072x768 file and different loaders, disabling gestalt screen and playing out trough a show.

[Meierhans]

One thing.. the FPS counter is still bugged when set to max FPS. To get the real FPS apply this formula:

Real FPS = Shown FPS / 4 * 3

I hope this will get fixed one day, as its really anoying if you build larger FXC and want to measure how many FPS one effect takes.

[play.vj]

Some updates on this.

Im preparing a show that will use fairly long files in 1920x480 with audio. There are two size limits Im hitting. Files larger than 1GB will play only partially and display a black frame after the limit was reached and files larger than 4gb will not play at all. Im solving this with chain triggering smaller parts of the video and leaving the waw in one piece. The sync seems to stay spot on, all-tough splitting the audio too is an option Im considering if sync issues appear.

I noticed a strange behavior triggering fxc-s trough a show playlist, if using the mouse cursor or the default arrow keys to trigger fxc-s. It took from 5 to 60 sec to load the fxc, depend how fast I was switching. Solved this by using a custom key to forward, I suspect using MIDI would also be an option. I had some fxc load delays using the arrow keys before, but that was less than a second. So it seems that configuring the key mapper driver rather than using the default keys is the only way to go here. But using the mouse cursor was never a problem, I might be hitting some old bug here that is largely exaggerated when using such large resolution. Luckily VJO has so many options a workaround is always possible.